Comments on: an epitaph for epitaph http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/ notes from the digital underground Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:47:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Scotty http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-23192 Scotty Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:48:14 +0000 http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-23192 Go to google and search Bad Religion discography torrent. Enjoy. Shoulda stayed on Emusic. Go to google and search Bad Religion discography torrent. Enjoy. Shoulda stayed on Emusic.

]]> By: MiDoJo http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-14160 MiDoJo Mon, 19 May 2008 23:28:44 +0000 http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-14160 STOPPPPPPPPP!!!! The Last Link at the Bottom of this Thread (oi oi oi dropkick murphys) open's a webpage that opens multiple pop-up fake AntiVirus warning messages and scans. I deem this link unsafe for all 17Dots users. If you disagree (and remember I am a security zealot so I know that nothing else caused these to occur) than pm me in emuser (if you are a real emusic/17dots fan) STOPPPPPPPPP!!!! The Last Link at the Bottom of this Thread (oi oi oi dropkick murphys) open’s a webpage that opens multiple pop-up fake AntiVirus warning messages and scans. I deem this link unsafe for all 17Dots users. If you disagree (and remember I am a security zealot so I know that nothing else caused these to occur) than pm me in emuser (if you are a real emusic/17dots fan)

]]> By: FriendlyFascism http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-8864 FriendlyFascism Thu, 01 Nov 2007 21:16:45 +0000 http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-8864 I was (am?) disappointed to see the Epitaph/Anti- titles go from eMusic. From the price point discussion, it seems that Mr. Gurewitz is becoming just as uncompromising as the major labels, and as foolish as Greg Ginn's SST Records attitude toward Negativland. My backup has always been used CDs and I see no reason to stop that now. I was (am?) disappointed to see the Epitaph/Anti- titles go from eMusic. From the price point discussion, it seems that Mr. Gurewitz is becoming just as uncompromising as the major labels, and as foolish as Greg Ginn’s SST Records attitude toward Negativland. My backup has always been used CDs and I see no reason to stop that now.

]]> By: BobO http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-8863 BobO Fri, 05 Oct 2007 23:09:23 +0000 http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-8863 Hopefully everyone who has an eMusic account and has ever downloaded a song from Epitaph label and it's affiliates will write Epitaph (retail@epitaph.com) Maybe with a big enough response they will reconsider their decision. My letter to Epitaph: Having been a long time fan of Epitaph records and their many great artists, I am writing to express my disappointment with your decision to no longer sell your catalogue on eMusic in the U.S. I have always considered Epitaph to be an independent label that would never conform to the ideology of the crappy corporate major labels. Unfortunately, I am now forced to wonder if Epitaph is trying to become just like those major labels where the bottom line means more than fans or the artists. I hope that in the future Epitaph Records and it's affiliates will return to eMusic. Hopefully everyone who has an eMusic account and has ever downloaded a song from Epitaph label and it’s affiliates will write Epitaph (retail@epitaph.com) Maybe with a big enough response they will reconsider their decision.

My letter to Epitaph:

Having been a long time fan of Epitaph records and their many great artists, I am writing to express my disappointment with your decision to no longer sell your catalogue on eMusic in the U.S. I have always considered Epitaph to be an independent label that would never conform to the ideology of the crappy corporate major labels. Unfortunately, I am now forced to wonder if Epitaph is trying to become just like those major labels where the bottom line means more than fans or the artists. I hope that in the future Epitaph Records and it’s affiliates will return to eMusic.

]]> By: Jefe de Zorros http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-8862 Jefe de Zorros Mon, 01 Oct 2007 16:53:06 +0000 http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-8862 Well like others, I'm extremely disappointed with this move by Epitaph. I'm sure they feel they have a viable business reason for doing this, but I hope it turns out to flop. What awful timing, as a new Weakerthans album just came out last Tuesday, and that only happens every 3 years or so. I took the libery of writing the Weakerthans to ask them how they would prefer I acquired their new album. I explained the situation and how I would not buy it off of iTunes as I didn't want to reinforce Epitaph's decision. They responded "Our record is in stores.. support your local indie record shop." I was a bit disappointed in this response from a band who is so rooted in anti-capitalism. I responded that I'd prefer to stick to digital downloads as they don't rely on foreign oil to get into my hands. It makes me sick because I really want this album. I pull it up on iTunes occasionally to listen to the samples, but I refuse to purchase it. Same goes for Motion City Soundtrack. Does anyone know what's going on with New West? I noticed they aren't adding their newest stuff either, but they haven't pulled their old stuff. Well like others, I’m extremely disappointed with this move by Epitaph. I’m sure they feel they have a viable business reason for doing this, but I hope it turns out to flop. What awful timing, as a new Weakerthans album just came out last Tuesday, and that only happens every 3 years or so.

I took the libery of writing the Weakerthans to ask them how they would prefer I acquired their new album. I explained the situation and how I would not buy it off of iTunes as I didn’t want to reinforce Epitaph’s decision. They responded “Our record is in stores.. support your local indie record shop.”

I was a bit disappointed in this response from a band who is so rooted in anti-capitalism. I responded that I’d prefer to stick to digital downloads as they don’t rely on foreign oil to get into my hands.

It makes me sick because I really want this album. I pull it up on iTunes occasionally to listen to the samples, but I refuse to purchase it. Same goes for Motion City Soundtrack.

Does anyone know what’s going on with New West? I noticed they aren’t adding their newest stuff either, but they haven’t pulled their old stuff.

]]> By: Joey Jo Jo http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-8861 Joey Jo Jo Sat, 22 Sep 2007 18:27:02 +0000 http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-8861 To Elijah M, on half.com, the lowest price (without shipping) as of this post for the albums you mentioned: Grinderman $4.95, Neko Case $8.00, and Joe Henry $10.50. Even at the total prices you quoted, I would probably buy those before using iTunes (well not the Joe Henry, I'd wait a few weeks). I see your point, and it does seem that Pakman searched for a highly discounted example. But most of the albums I bought from Epitaph on eMusic were not new releases, and I could have likely gotten the used cd's for $3-$5 (ok $6-$8 with shipping). I think the more important point is that eMusic subscribers probably won't buy from iTunes. They'll look in the used market first. And even though Grinderman and Neko Case is $9.99 on iTunes, I would still probably buy the $11.97 and $12.19 used cd's you quoted since I'm only $2 away from physical backup, whatever ripping quality I want, and artwork. No DRM either. Of course I don't like to do that very often (pay more than for digital), but I usually don't have to. I've never bought a song from iTunes. To Elijah M, on half.com, the lowest price (without shipping) as of this post for the albums you mentioned: Grinderman $4.95, Neko Case $8.00, and Joe Henry $10.50. Even at the total prices you quoted, I would probably buy those before using iTunes (well not the Joe Henry, I’d wait a few weeks). I see your point, and it does seem that Pakman searched for a highly discounted example. But most of the albums I bought from Epitaph on eMusic were not new releases, and I could have likely gotten the used cd’s for $3-$5 (ok $6-$8 with shipping). I think the more important point is that eMusic subscribers probably won’t buy from iTunes. They’ll look in the used market first. And even though Grinderman and Neko Case is $9.99 on iTunes, I would still probably buy the $11.97 and $12.19 used cd’s you quoted since I’m only $2 away from physical backup, whatever ripping quality I want, and artwork. No DRM either. Of course I don’t like to do that very often (pay more than for digital), but I usually don’t have to. I’ve never bought a song from iTunes.

]]> By: Elijah M http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-8860 Elijah M Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:39:59 +0000 http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-8860 I think it's disingenuous to imply that you can get a used CD of a recent release for $3, especially now, since fewer and fewer people are actually buying CDs in the first place. When you factor in shipping (which averages around--ahem--$3), they tend to cost the same, if not more, than buying the album on iTunes. A few examples... Grinderman: Lowest used price: 8.99 2.98 shipping = $11.97 total Neko Case - Fox Confessor Brings the Flood: Lowest used price: 9.21 2.98 shipping = $12.19 total Joe Henry - Civilians: Lowest used price: 12.99 2.98 shipping = $15.97 total These are all based on Amazon used prices at the time I posted this comment. With some exceptions, older catalog releases tend to be cheaper, but not by much. This article contains some salient points, but they're obscured by this flagrant exaggeration. I think it’s disingenuous to imply that you can get a used CD of a recent release for $3, especially now, since fewer and fewer people are actually buying CDs in the first place. When you factor in shipping (which averages around–ahem–$3), they tend to cost the same, if not more, than buying the album on iTunes.

A few examples…

Grinderman:
Lowest used price: 8.99 2.98 shipping = $11.97 total

Neko Case - Fox Confessor Brings the Flood:
Lowest used price: 9.21 2.98 shipping = $12.19 total

Joe Henry - Civilians:
Lowest used price: 12.99 2.98 shipping = $15.97 total

These are all based on Amazon used prices at the time I posted this comment. With some exceptions, older catalog releases tend to be cheaper, but not by much. This article contains some salient points, but they’re obscured by this flagrant exaggeration.

]]> By: whataslacker http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-8859 whataslacker Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:34:03 +0000 http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-8859 I had a lot of songs/albums I was going to buy. Now gone from my saved for later list. Shame, as I refuse to buy an iPod or download from iTunes. emusic.com was my answer for corporate crap [isn't that what bands on epitaph rage against?] Sorry to see them go. I had a lot of songs/albums I was going to buy. Now gone from my saved for later list. Shame, as I refuse to buy an iPod or download from iTunes. emusic.com was my answer for corporate crap [isn't that what bands on epitaph rage against?] Sorry to see them go.

]]> By: Tyson http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-8857 Tyson Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:25:02 +0000 http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-8857 Here’s my letter to epitaph: "I was very sad to hear today that you have removed your entire catalog of great albums from eMusic. I have been a strong supporter of many of the artists on your roster for more than 15 years and this leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. Due in large part to eMusic I have NOT ONCE illegally downloaded any epitaph release...in fact I've actually re-purchased several Epitaph releases thru eMusic that I had lost over the years; but I'll be damned if this short sighted move on your part doesn't make me want to go download the new Weakerthans album off P2P instead of paying for it as I originally planned. Do you really think that 99 cents per track with bullshit DRM is a fair price for your customers?? I have/will never download a track from the iTunes Music Store until they give their heads a shake and realize: (1) their prices are too high and (2) that selling me a track with DRM is unacceptable. Last time I checked you still sell CDs don't you?? Well let's examine what a CD gets me..... For about 99 cents per track (or less) I get: > fancy printed artwork that costs you a fortune to manufacture > a jewel case/shrinkwarp > and oh ya.....DRM FREE MUSIC!! on a shiny disk that I can keep on my shelf as a backup until the day I die and rip onto my computer as many times as I feel like it!! ....and I'm not even counting the distribution/shelving/etc costs that I'm saving you by purchasing the album online. When production/distribution costs go down don't you usually pass at least some part of that savings onto the customer?? At any rate, all I'm trying to say is that I feel the price per song on eMusic is fair for the consumer and last time I checked WE make the rules by voting with our pocketbooks. I can only hope other eMusic subscribers will feel as strongly as I do and convince you to come back." Here’s my letter to epitaph:

“I was very sad to hear today that you have removed your entire catalog
of great albums from eMusic. I have been a strong supporter of many of
the artists on your roster for more than 15 years and this leaves a
very sour taste in my mouth.

Due in large part to eMusic I have NOT ONCE illegally downloaded any
epitaph release…in fact I’ve actually re-purchased several Epitaph
releases thru eMusic that I had lost over the years; but I’ll be
damned if this short sighted move on your part doesn’t make me want to
go download the new Weakerthans album off P2P instead of paying for it
as I originally planned.

Do you really think that 99 cents per track with bullshit DRM is a
fair price for your customers??

I have/will never download a track from the iTunes Music Store until
they give their heads a shake and realize:

(1) their prices are too high and
(2) that selling me a track with DRM is unacceptable.

Last time I checked you still sell CDs don’t you??

Well let’s examine what a CD gets me…..

For about 99 cents per track (or less) I get:

> fancy printed artwork that costs you a fortune to manufacture

> a jewel case/shrinkwarp

> and oh ya…..DRM FREE MUSIC!! on a shiny disk that I can keep on my shelf as a backup until the day I die and rip onto my computer as many times as I feel like it!!

….and I’m not even counting the distribution/shelving/etc costs that
I’m saving you by purchasing the album online.

When production/distribution costs go down don’t you usually pass at
least some part of that savings onto the customer??

At any rate, all I’m trying to say is that I feel the price per song
on eMusic is fair for the consumer and last time I checked WE make the
rules by voting with our pocketbooks. I can only hope other eMusic
subscribers will feel as strongly as I do and convince you to come
back.”

]]> By: Howard http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-8858 Howard Wed, 19 Sep 2007 19:17:21 +0000 http://17dots.com/2007/09/13/an-epitaph-for-epitaph/#comment-8858 I realized this issue yesterday when I was looking for a record by Solomon Burke on eMusic and couldn't find it. I had known that other records from the label had been available on eMusic in the past, so I was surprised that I couldn't download it. Now I know why. I continued to look around online for a place where I could buy a DRM free digital copy of the album, no such luck. It is available on iTunes, but I refuse to buy copy protected songs. So I did what I usually do when I can't legitimately purchase digital music, I stole the record by illegally downloading it. Very punk rock. Just like Epitaph is supposed to be. I realized this issue yesterday when I was looking for a record by Solomon Burke on eMusic and couldn’t find it. I had known that other records from the label had been available on eMusic in the past, so I was surprised that I couldn’t download it. Now I know why. I continued to look around online for a place where I could buy a DRM free digital copy of the album, no such luck. It is available on iTunes, but I refuse to buy copy protected songs. So I did what I usually do when I can’t legitimately purchase digital music, I stole the record by illegally downloading it. Very punk rock. Just like Epitaph is supposed to be.

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